Hotshot Connect Forum :: flatbed vs dovetail

bobbym60

i am in a decision crunch,i found 2 trailers,one is a 40' gooseneck dovetail the other is a 40' gooseneck straight flat with 8' pullout ramps,now i'm really got my eye on the straight flat,its already setup with ratchet straps already welded to trailer,but my question is loading autos if need be,will they clear the trailer or bottom out,and with this trailer will i be able to keep it busy,i know i can haul equipment,and have the clearance,but autos is the qwuestion. its rated at 24,500 and brand new. plus its 1000 dollars cheaper than dovetail.i just fell in love with it when i seen it,whats your opinion fella's

Tom Cobb · Site Admin

Brian get in here and give him the in's and out's.

It the ramps are long enough you can load cars on the flatbed alright. What is the actual wt of the two trailers and the GVWR? If the actual wt is significantly different, suspect dove tail is heavier, then you many need to consider that.

Aluminum ramps would make them easier to deal with and make them longer to reduce the angle for cars. If you don't plan to load many cars then it may not be worth considering.

Brian is the one to give you the low down. He went thru this already. I know he is around because he responded to a post earlier.

bth9461

Trailer height makes a big difference. If the trailer is 36" off the ground 8' foot ramps are useless, you might even have trouble with a 4x4, equipment only most likely.

I started with a 29' equipment trailer 24/5 dove tail folding ramps. I could do high clearance vehicles and some midsize cars with a bunch of blocking. My deck was 36" high and the ramps acted like a 10.5' ramp. Putting down 2-3 layers of 2x4 was a pain, traction was a problem, and if not careful you can slide off them. Some trailers are built with a lopro design deckover maybe 32-33" height this helps too. I had my old trailer modified to help with cars, by cutting the beaver tail off and making it a 7' and bought some 8' Alum Ramps. This allowed me to do most cars, not real low sport cars like a Vette though. I could do a Magnum though with 1 2x4 on the ground to keep the ass end from bottoming out. The magnum is pretty low to the ground with a long wheel base. Longer wheel bases make it more difficult also long front/rear over hangs on low clearance vehicle are difficult too.

Fixed beaver tails are a pain because you will drag your rump around all day long. Incline/declines from the road to driveways/parking lots will cause you a lot of greif. Even some inclines on a road will cause you to bottom out. I once had to back up 1 mile on a road because a bridge was out and all the side roads I past were a very steep inclines, too much to get up. You can put rollers on, they will help some, but don't be surprised if they don't keep breaking off. Fixed beaver tails are just a pain, if you can get a 14-15"+ rear clearance then dragging would be limited some what. Keep them 2x4's handy they can be used to get the trailer unhung too. My trailer had a 12" clearance the longer the beaver tail the more of a problem this is, the 7' beaver tailer drug more until I redid the rear bumper and got a couple more inches of clearance.

I would go with the straight deck and modify the ramp system. Will the ramp pockets take a longer ramp or can they be modified to get a longer ramp. Many stepdeck guys use a 16' or 14' heavy duty Alum ramps. You could even make a custom 2 piece ramp.

What you want is about a slope of .21 or less to get most cars. Trailer Height 3' divided by ramp length 14' = .214 this would allow most car loads. My old trailer was a .20 with the beaver tail mod. The 5' beaver tail was a .27, your 8' ramp with a 36" high trailer is .375 way to high. Even with a 32" deck divided by 96" = .333 to high also.

My new trailer has a Hydraulic 11' beaver tail and 8' alum ramps that hook on to the beaver tail giving me 19' of ramp. The trailer when hooked to my Volvo has a rear height of about 32", which = a .14 slope. I can drive a Vette right on now. 4x4's I just lower the beaver tail no ramps.

Recently I loaded a 21k 33' long bus with a 8' rear overhang, I had about 1" ground clearance on the back bumper.

Get the straight deck spend some money on the ramps, my 8' x 16" Tuff-N-Nuff ramps cost $750 2 years ago. Made in IN, near Elkhart.

Brian

bobbym60

both trailers are 24,500 gvwr and are 36" so with the straight flat,will i get enough work for it without hauling autos or equipment unless both places where, i p/u and del have a outside dock to back up to and load and unload. i also found a place in perryburg ohio,that will put a side kit and tarp on ,whats your opions on doing this.i think it would myself workout better,i can roll my tarp over my bows,instead of fighting on a windy day of stretching and pulling tarps over a load. please give me your input on this. i also want to say thanks to all on this forum,since i joined,i have learned so much,and got some really great advise. thanks fella's

bth9461

Bobby I could not make it on flat freight alone, nor do Gary's guys. His guys use a lowboy with drive over fenders, so they can mix flat freight and cars. I spent 17k on a custom trailer to slove the problem for me.

With you starting cold turkey and no direct customer Flat freight dedicated to you I would suggest the most versatile. The side kit has merrit if you are hualing steel and some low machinery, plus you should be able to get some enclosed vehicles too.

I saw a Cannadian with a 30' GN and a side kit at a hotel once.

The thing I don't like about fixed beaver tail's is the ground clearance, if you can get 14-15" then you will not drag as much. You need to have it hooked up to your truck to get a real accurate measure.

How much and who had the side kit?

Brian

bobbym60

hi again brian,the place that has got the side kit is tarpstop in perrysburg,ohio as of price i dont have one yet,they need to see the trailer so they can measure the stake pocket holes. and style of bulkhead,but while i am typing to you what type trailer would recommend that will keep me busy in anything,or everything,i am open for a suggestions from you gentlemen that is or has done it,before i purchase the wrong trailer.

Tom Cobb · Site Admin

Bobby

What is missing is the business plan. That identifies the types of loads and where you plan on getting them from. Types of loads you plan to haul determines the trailer. You have to identify the niche market you plan to haul in. You will fail trying to do it all. It is not humanly possible to haul everything there is to be hauled.

Do your business plan first.

bobbym60

what i would like to haul and got alot of experience in is equipment hauling,like backhoes,skidloaders,or small farm equipment,heat/cooling systems. anything like this that i can haul on gooseneck,and i am really learning alot from you.this bussiness is alot different than big trucks,especially when it comes to figuring out what type trailer that will suit my needs. i hate to admit it but i am lost on a trailer decision.and i am hoping to have this bussiness up and running hopefully in a month or two.

Tom Cobb · Site Admin

If that is what you plan to haul then the dovetail is the trailer. A trailer like Brian talked about is also a good idea. It is low enough to haul roll on and can also be used for freight. I think the dove tail is to limiting when it comes to roll on stock.

bobbym60

tom or brian who carries these trailers,and yes i prefer to haul this type freight,is there enough out there, thks bobby pain in the butt aint i

Tom Cobb · Site Admin

No pain. That what the forum is here for.

bobbym60

hey i emailed landstar broker twice now to ask them if they get alot of hotshot freight for the trailer i want to get,which i am going to get one like brian said,lowboy drive over fenders,etc. but anyhow these people aint sent an answer back yet. thks guys

Tom Cobb · Site Admin

Have you found a dealer that has the trailer you are wanting?

bobbym60

yes at indian valley trailer in n.e. texas 45'lowboy tri-axle 7000lb ez lube axles ea,i am getting it with these items on it lightweight deck over gooseneck,10 strap ratchets welded on 5ea side,spare and rim,9' slide out ramps,toolbox put in between neck rails,mesh tray in neck,5" torque tube,30k coupler,midmount turn signals,101" deck instead of 82",drive over fenders,winch mounting plate and 12,000lb winch,d-rings (14)and the price is $9,378. does not include tax,this a good deal or you know somewhere else,before i get it ordered,i told them i would drive down and pickup,to save on shipping,kinda sucks though i have to deadhead it home.til i can get it licensed and what ever else it will need before i start putting vechicles and equipment on,or is there a way i can have it ready from there to haul freight coming back toward ohio without getting a ticket.

Tom Cobb · Site Admin

I don't know what Ohio has to say about it. One thing you would have to before hauling a load is to have your truck and trailer DOT inspected and get the appropriate stickers.

As far as license goes..you would leave here with a manufacturers tag on the trailer to get you to Ohio to register it.

Do you have your DOT and FMCSA authority and insurance? You can get the insurance coverage on the trailer as soon as you have the VIN #. You could probably get that and call the insur. co from TX.

If you are running over 26K then the truck and trailer has to have the apportion plates. You would need to check Ohio to see if they have an apportion plate for the trailer or what they use on apportioned rigs for the trailer.

bth9461

Your moving fast. The price looks good.

Maybe Gary would comment on this.

He recommends PJ trailers. Other good Mfg's are Load-max, and Big-Tex. My trailer was a Big-Tex GN14 29'. Put 300k miles on it. My current trailer is a Imperial out of Oliney, IL. Best built trailer I have ever seen, but pricey. The above Mfg are high production trailers but at good prices with very good quality.

The one your looking at might be as good, but if you have never seen one I would make a trip to the plant first.

Be careful of deposits over 30%.

Landstar most likely will not respond. Look up loads on the website and call the agents. Load size LTL, Trailer type SD and Flat.

If you want to haul equipment call on all dealers and rental places in a 50 mile radius to start. They might deal witrh you direct, or tell you a broker or trucking company that they use.

Brian

bobbym60

what your thoughts on getting a full time trailer tag from oklahoma,that it has a 1 time fee plus doing the title of trailer over into that state also,and its a 250.00 to get the tag and the title.coast to coast services will take care of it.as for everything else,and please let me know if anything that i'm missing but here is what i will be paying on startup,my dually and trailer will be paid in cash in full,no fiancing or loans on them. sorry this is going to be pretty long subject,my insurance is 6875.per yr with 1845.dwn to start and 685.per month x 7mo.s,which the coverage is 750,000 primary liability,25,000 um coverage,25,000 physical damage w/1000.ded,100,000 cargo w/1000.ded unlimited radius.my irp i don't know how much thats going to cost,i estimated 650.00per year,my permits which will be dot,mc,my authority,ucr,ifta,kyu,800.00 to start.west chester permits here in ohio will be doing that.prepass 20.00mo. my air-ride for my dually 350.,the dually which will be used w/about 95,000miles, 14,000. my trailer 9500.,and trlr supplies chains,binders,straps,etc. approx 2000. and other misc items,300.00 ,so all together i figured its going to cost me around 30,000 or alittle over to get this started,so if you see something i missed or something i dont need please let me know,i can use all the advise i can on getting this started,and being legal from the get go. and one more thing i personally want to say thank you to all you guys that i have been talking to,i have gained so much knowledge since i been on here,like i said awhile back,that i drove tractor/trailer for 28yrs,and you stop in a truck stop and hear all these big riggers talk there professional been there,done that talk,well i just want to say i aint one of them,cause i still learning new things everyday,and i feel like a school kid again,thirstin for the knowledge,cause i am learning so much since i joined this forum,thank you gentlemen you guys are super,and hope to someday meet you in person,the breakfast,dinner,or supper,what ever it may be,is on me. i told you all this was going to be along post. lol

bth9461

I would skip the upper deck with a 1ton it is not very useful. You will already be near your Drive axle weight rating with the trailer loaded on the lower deck.

Brian

mhlogistics

Sorry guys been busy, only had enough time to skim through this thread also. If I'm not to late, Indian Valley and Hefty are the same company. Got tired of the sloppy welding and wiring problems. Not to mention we sent a lot of guys there to buy and the prices were jumping to much. Same day I had 2 guys call for quotes on the same trailer and there was a $2,000.00 price difference. You know how salesman can be. Also They'd try to tell the guys coming to work with us they needed things like upper decks and other add ons we don't use. When the guys would question them they'd say M&H didn't know what they were doing, LOL. Anything to increase the price of the trailer.

We're getting our 45' lowboys from a company called Freisen trailers out of Castle, OK now. Freisens welding is about the best I've seen out there, really nice trailers and the last time I checked the price is a less than Indian Valley/Hefty. We also buy 40' PJ lowboys like Brian was saying. Very nice trailers also, and very lite weight.

On another note, We stopped getting weld on winch's a long time ago because they add weight and never seem to be in the spot we need them. We use the 2" ratchet straps instead. Sliders are ok but we just don't want the extra weight that comes with them. Wink

PS we run these trailers through Ohio on accassion and never have any problems. Of course most of our guys have the cab n chassis's now and are considered tractor trailer combinations.

bth9461

The cab and chasis with a 45' lowboy allows for 3 cars, that is an advantage, in this market. I am seeing my LTL broker business drying up, cars are keeping me going.

The cab and chasis allows you to avoid the 65' length rule. With the small LTL's a 2" strap is all you really need. Watch your overal gross weight empty. Keep things as light as possible. That upper deck will cost you 1 mpg in fuel. You need a medium duty drive axle to make them profitable.

Tgpilot had a Hefty and at first liked it, but latter changed his mind. I would not buy one from them. Bobby these trailer are built lighter than the big rig trailers, but take the same type of punishment from every day hauling. So the trailer needs to be of good quality, or you will have problems.

One other thing I put 17.5" tires on my trailer, they are rated for 6005 lbs each. With single wheel tandems I can spin my trailer on a dime. 1 tire had a defect and I had a blowout at about 40k miles I now have about 90k on them. They make a 17.5 tire that is rated for around #4800, on a triaxle that is the way I would go. You can put more tire on your axles and avoid flats. 16" tires just don't hold up in my opinion.

Brian

bth9461

Bobby, how is your start up going?

Brian