hey there fellow truckers I have just joined your ranks. I have been a local dump truck driver and heavy equipment operator for a local underground utilities and land clearing contractor untill he couldnt come up with the money to pay me. Fortunately I had seen the handwriting on the wall and have been researching this business of car hauling. I already have a 03 ford f350 dually with the 6.0. I know how you all feel about this pickup but I am forced (financially) to start with it. How does the old saying go? Till the wheels fall off! Hopefully they wont. It has 139k on it and has plenty of poop still plus a new set of tires and brakes. I have made a deal on a kaufman 3/4 car hauler by trading my 00 cad seville on it. I have filed Llc,mc,uc,dot, and got quoted on the ins. 5k a year for that.
I am a little unclear on how to fill out the irp paperwork. Anyway I am feeling like a deer in the headlights because of all the money I have spent just so far. I cant even run for another 19 days till I get my mc authority in the mail. I will be longhauling for brokers only. I have no local business contacts. I only have faith that the good lord will sustain my pregnant wife and I. I just opened my business bank account with 50 Bucks. I have a great work ethic and will hustle for the work. I have learned much from this site and appreciate any information or comments you would have.
Tom Cobb
Welcome to the forum. Join right in and let us hear what you have to say.
Is the $5K for liability only? How much liability? Some brokers require $1M. $5K for insurance sounds a little low for liability based on what I have seen before. What about collision and comp for your truck....is that included. All your insurance has to be commercial insurance including comp and collision.
How about cargo insurance? With a 3 or 4 car trailer you need to think about the most expensive load of cars you will haul and be sure you have cargo insurance to cover that.
For example; 3 Suburbans could easily be $180K. How about 3 or 4 high dollar Mercedes, etc.?
The IRP is filed in your state so contact the state dot and see what they need. I assume you have apportion plates for the truck and whatever the state requires for the trailer....it could be regular trailer tag or a token tag. That varies by state. You will need to have them when you file you IRP.
Zachariah Transport Llc.
Well I went to hi school with the insurance agent. I dont know for sure exactly how much yet. He said it would be a couple of days before he could get some quotes. I drove to Olympia to get my ifta and irp taken care of but my truck is not registered to me yet so the lady said Id have to wake till the truck reg is changed. I didnt even get to the appotioned plates yet. I was reading your and phils posts and was gettin scared id have to pey out another 3 grand!
Tom Cobb
It is expensive to start up. If you don't have the finances to pay the up front cost and to start out with at least $10K in the bank to cover living expenses and meet operating costs for the first couple of months then you are headed for big time problems.
This is discussed at length in many posts on here.
bth9461
Progressive for Liability is the cheapest, but then you need Cargo INS, I use the Hartford for that. To haul autos legal you need 1mil in liability, because of the gas in their tanks. OH DOT checked to see what was on file for me a year ago, he told me many nguys only carry 750k and that is not enough. YOU should have 150-250k for cargo for a 3 car carrier. Some brokers will require at least 150k. I carry 200k, I had 1 Mercedes that had a 150k sticker once.
Progressive and Hartford will allow you to pay by the month with a small prepayment. I started with Auto Owner's they did both the Liab/Cargo, it was more expensive about 10k a year with only 100k on the cargo. Plus you needed to pay for it up front. My agent had a finance Co. that would pay it, the I made monthly payments to them. Cost another 1k a year.
Progressive/Hartford costs about 6k-7k with the better cargo. Insurance costs also are different for each of us, Equipment/Area/D-record, ect...
You have one foot in the grave, I hope your truck lasts, till you can get a new one. Do you have good credit, you will need it to keep going and to just get started.
With cars you can get some COD's to help with fuel, but some must be billed, most car brokers pay in 2 weeks, some take 4 weeks though. Always ask about payment. Central Dispatch is the Load board I use for cars. You will need some seed money or credit cards to get going.
Is your wife going to dispatch you from home, if not you will need a laptop and a Air Card for looking up loads on the road. The truck stops will sell you WiFi access, but that is restrictive and expensive. Hooking up a fax machine/printer in your truck will help also. I stay in Hotels every night so I can use their fax services, the truck stops will charge you for every page sent/Rec'd expensive again. TG-pilot is a good source on truck/fax/computer setup.
A base level laptop is all you need $4-500, plus accesories. Fire estinguisher, emergency triangles, spare fuses, straps/chains. All this stuff adds up to about 1-2k to get out fitted for the road.
It is not legal to sleep in the truck, so you must consider how you will live on the Road, I sleep in Hotels everynight S-8's cost about $60-70 on average. Most guys with PU's sleep in their trucks though. They just log off duty and lie if asked by DOT, never admit to sleeping in the truck. It is legal for you to sit in a RA/casino/Truckstop Drivers lounge for 10 hours and then go out and endanger the public and yourself. This is big decision for you to consider. There is a conversion kit (legal sleeper) that removes the front passenger seat for a CREW cab Ford/Dodge, seems to me it costs about 3K+, NOT SURE ON THE PRICE.
It is not easy to lie to DOT on the side of the road, so think this through, before you go down that road. If you sleep in the truck do not do it in Public Rest Area's, use the truck stops. Better to illegally sleep than live on Red Bull.
I did run into a guy that took out his front passenger seat and folded the rear down. He had a wood platfom to the hieght of the back seat and the mattress running from the front to back. He CLAIMED DOT gave him no problems, you need a 75" x 24" x 24" area and a matress or foam bed. I doubt he had a legal restrainght system so it was not legal to use as a rolling sleeper for a Team driver setup.
Life on the road is tuff so think this through before you jump in, it looks easy from the out side, but it could ruin you. Do you have health insurance for the the family, does your wife work, do you have other income? You might be better off going to driving school for one of the big rig companies and drive one of their trucks with benefits. Think this through carefully, this business is easy to get into, but it is not easy to get out once you start to build up business debt. What if your truck engine goes at 160k miles, what will you do? Maybe you get another 100-200k out of it. I had a $2400 repair (4x4 tranfer case/yoke) on my used truck 30k miles into my business when I started.
I started with some cash and lots of good credit, plus a working non pregnant wife (60k + good benefits).
You might make it but really think this through. Brokered cars usually only pay about .60-.75 PM each some are less than .50 PM. Mostly you won't be able to carry more than 3 cars. Take that truck out with a test load of cars and check your milage. I bet that Ford won't get more than 6-8 mpg at high way speed. What if it only gets 6 MPG thats about .70 PM for just fuel. Figure about 10k miles per month and add up all your other expenses for the month (estimate it, repairs/reg maintance, Insurance, cell phone, Air card, Hotels?, food on the road, ect...) then devide it by 10k miles then add it to your fuel cost per mile. Then factor in about 20% DH miles into your billed miles. So figure 8k billed miles on 10k miles worth of expenses. That is what your facing.
It might not work for you, but it might, each of us are different. That is what you are facing in my opinion.
Just did a quick check on Central WA state is a bad state for car hauling, only 150 cars to choose from, only about 5 cars going to CA, that equals lots of DH miles to load/Unload with few choices on average. I have 350 to 400 cars in MI or OH to choose from IL has 275, the North East has 1500 for me to choose from on my return trips.
Few choices leads to poor rates the cars going to CA were only paying about .30 pm on 1200 miles. CA and AZ is where you need to head, so plan on taking what you can get going that direction, and staying out 2-3 weeks at a time. CA 3100 cars, AZ 1100, TX 824, CO 257, OR only had 100. You need to find away to use the these markets if you want to haul cars. Also contact every dealer and salvage yard near you 100 mile radius and setup some direct customers, price at 15-25% above the brokered rates in your area, I would say .80-1.00 pm is what I use for direct customers.
Try to make a accurate estimate of your costs/revenue before you go any farther. Then see if you can make it work. I wish you luck, hard work I doubt worries you, but some bad luck might put you under if you can't hang in there to get established.
Good luck Brian
Tom Cobb
Brian
I was hoping you would put your 2 cents into this since car hauling is what you do. You always have a good perspective on this stuff.
bth9461
Car hauling is fill in and return freight for me, or special heavy larger vehicles that a wedge would have trouble with. I hauled 1 out dually and a 1500 PU and a van back this week. Plus a 8' 500 pd LTL pc of freight.
The regular vehicles paid $600 (800 miles) each and the Dually paid $850 (700 miles), the little LTL paid $1250 (800 miles). All those loads beat the $400 cars WA to CA I saw on central for 1200 miles.
I think CA/AZ are a good base for cars, but WA might be tough without some direct customers.
Brian
Tom Cobb
You seem to be doing OK in the "recession" that we are in. That is what the media wants to call it. You darn sure can't tell anything about a "recession" down here.
bth9461
Having a larger Flat Deck trailer with easy vehicle loading ability helps in keeping it load with good loads. But more important is that it is my 4th year. The business contacts I have now really help, it took about 2-2.5 years to build the business. This is more important than the trailer, I have a nice mix of direct Customers and good Brokers. One of my best Customers for return loads is a Salvage Yard, fork on/off cars, no inspection reports, and .90-1.00 per unit.
Zachariah, you need a good local base to help get you home, other wise you will DH 100's miles to get home. Salvage cars are easy most of the time, though I did get one that was really crushed that I tarpped it to avoid have glass and debris blowing off. This is the exception, most will transport just fine, the bad ones are partially shrink wrapped.
Another hint is to carry a powerful spot light or ask to drive a car into the dealers service area to ispect it under some light. If a dealer won't sign off on a inspection (on lease returns many times they won't, they don't own it) call the customer and give them a verbal walk around.
Cars are easy to load, but inspection reports can be a pain, some brokers have forms, others you will need your own generic one, plus most of the time you will need to fill out your own Bill OF Lading, DOT will ask to see this transport paper work.
Zachariah I hope I was not being too hard on starting up. It can be done but it is tough starting out. A 3 car trailer has more potential than the small trailer I started with, but it won't be easy. If your truck goes down, you need a back plan, it would put a real hurt on me, but I can get it fixed, might take the rest of the year to pay it off though.
Brian
Zachariah Transport Llc.
Man I am still tying to process all of that information that you guys posted.
Thank you for responding. Currently I am chewing all that was said here.
My truck gets 15mph without a load and I dont know yet about loaded with three cars. I do have a laptop. I saw from some of the posts about the "out of service" sleeping in the truck deal. I would rather get a hotel 6 or an 8. Im waiting for my insurance quote. Im most concearned about those deadheaded miles. I have been speaking to a frech fry oil burner
and thinking about converting my truck to it. I found a scource of oil for
1.80 per gallon. Any thoughts?
Zachariah Transport Llc.
Brian that is good money! Most of these brokers are .50 to .75. I can see that I will definately need to make my own contacts when possible. Maybe someday id even be able to stick a little bit closer to home. Man my wife will be upset if I miss the birth of our daughter.
Tom Cobb
The oil thing is OK for fill up at home and you have time to fool with it. But when you start the business you won't have time to mess around with finding oil and processing it. Remember, you are starting a business not a hobby. It can consume a lot of time if you are going to do this. You really need to realize that it does consume your time when you are on the road and at home.
There is a lot of paperwork to keep up with and you have to be looking for customers and loads so even when at home you are consumed with this animal....if not you will not make it go. This is not a part time job or hobby.
That is just the way of it and the hard truth that needs to be digested before you leap into this project. It is a lifestyle.
bth9461
TC is right about that time thing, I work at least 60 hours in the truck and another 20-30 hours out of it. All employees should own a business once to see what the boss goes through, it will change your perspective. Some of the happiest Co. Drivers are EX-O/O's. Most guys that have only been Co. Drivers think that life would be better as a O/O. While driving a truck is not easy, it is the least difficult part of the operation, in my opinion.
As for the oil thing, I think it might be rather time consuming, and it will not save that much when you figure IFTA in. I used to buy fuel at the Indian Res. stations in NY when I was under IFTA, now it is not worth it, when you have to pay the taxes later.
On rates always try and get the broker to come up on price 25/50/75/100 what ever you can get. Sometimes they won't budge, but if you don't ask then they won't for sure. Typical car brokers get 15-25% of the haul, so remember to add that into your direct customer quotes, don't cut the customer any slack, that just forces the broker to come back and cut your rates. You must sell the customer on your hands on service, you are worth more than a broker because they will send in anyone willing to haul the load.
Example a guy asked what the price of a car off of Long Island to MI, I quoted $800 on 750-800 miles, most of the brokers are only 4-500 right now. Told the guy straight up I won't do it on the cheap off the Island, I would rather get out of there and grab a 4-500 car out of NJ rather than give them a deal out of there. Don't care if He calls if it is not at what I NEED.
By the way heading into the lions den on Monday LTL's 500 PA, LI 1075, Manhattan 1100, and a car to NJ for 575. 2 of the 4 negotiated up 100 on Manhattan and 50 on the car, The LI load is with my best broker and he always gives great rates to the truck no need to bite the hand that feeds me. The other was 500 on 290 miles so they already had a great rate. The Manhattan loads in PA so it is only about 400 miles on the 1100, but I still asked for the extra 100 because of where it is going to.
I will have 1200 miles into this trip with all the stops, but it pays $3250 with mostly flat freight. But I will need to haul cars most likely to get home, and there are no good rates on Central right now, I have some time to be choosey though, But on Tuesday it might not be there.
If you stay with cars I would angle to change equipment down the road. S/A semi with a real 6/7 car trailer, very easy to manuver and load, so I have been told. Or go enclosed if you have the contacts. You could have both type of tailers also. Then run what is needed.
The western mountains will really take a toll on a hard working dually. I have picnic runs compared to what you are facing.
DuraVegasmax just replaced his Duramax at about 210k miles, He runs between LA and Vegas mostly, HOT/DUSTY/BIG LONG GRADES. Mine is still running strong at 209k, but I have easy running in the East.
Rember this on rates, know what you are likely to get coming out of an area, and factor that in to your decision. 2.00 pm going in and .75 pm coming out is not a good deal for you. Then factor in DH miles and it is even bleaker. Always look at the total miles to get the job done. It costs you to run empty or loaded as a business owner. A CO. Driver gets paid for miles and cost means nothing to him. But it breaks or makes the O/O.
I knew very little of this stuff when I started and did not know about websites like this. Get as much knowledge before you leap, some might take except to my advice, but you must make your own choices. No 2 of us are exactly the same. Somethings are similar, but not everything. Like home base area and region you run.
If you do go out on your own, use this time to sell your self to some local accounts, and make a milage test run, some friends cars loaded on your trailer for fuel cost estimate.
Brian
Tom Cobb
Good advice should always be adhered to or at least considered.
I wish websites like had been around when I started. Sometimes it seems that folks like you and I broke a lot of ground and learned a lot to pass on. I know we were not the first ones but apparently none of those before us used computers and the internet to pass on info or to research to learn. Today there are places to get all your questions anwered a lot easier than many that started before us and when we started.
I can remember spending hours researching fed and state laws and trying to find people that could give me info. There was virtually nobody that I knew to talk to about it. Only that so and so said this and that. Even going to the state or fed offices yielded very little.
It was virtually start doing what you thought and hope you could stay out of trouble when learning the ropes. There were a couple of reasons I started transporting for an RV transport compay early on, one of which was to get my feet wet and learn as much as I could and talk to as many people as I could. I was like a sponge everywhere I went. It was a school of hard knots.
I am talking about 5 years ago. This is a good indicator of how much info availability on the internet has changed. So newbies learn from those of us who have plowed the ground and planted the seeds and grew the crop that provides many of you with info that we really needed and didn't have. Learn from our experiences and then make your decisions accordingly.
Maybe you can be more successful in your venture. Be blessed in it.
TGPILOT
Hey Zach, I used to live in Puyallup, Chehalis and Medford besides a lot of other places out there.
If you can avoid brokers as much as possible and deal with shippers direct. You should be in a good position with all the ports in the area. Check out Tacoma, Seattle, Bremerton. Plus all the others.....I would check and see what is moving in these areas first, also see what typy oe equipment they are running before jumping in.
When I lived in that part of the country I was doing a lot of flying. Used to fly out of Chehalis up and into Mt. St. Helens a lot.
My brother still lives in that area, he built up a trucking business that was worth several million before he sold it out a few years back.
Good luck.....Hello TC and Brian.....been busy, things happening. Hope you guys are doing well.
Tom
Tom Cobb
We have been wondering where you been. How is your health? I will give you a call in the next few days or you can call me if you want.
Phil
Zach, are you trying to get this operation going on a shoestring budget?
You will need nome cash set aside for fuel, break downs, motels, etc. You say that you opened a business account with $50 bucks, that concerns me. That with the fact that you are loading out of THE WORST AREA OF THE COUNTRY to run cars.
Take my advice here, I go up to WA A lOT! Drop down to CA and get your cars, dont run the $.30 a mile cars up there, dont support that crap. It may put fuel in the tank, but it wont cover anything else! You can say that you only haul the cheap cars to get to where the cars are paying good, but DONT. Dead Head to the good paying cars, and when you go back home you will make good money!
bth9461
Zach, how are things going?
Phil makes some good points and he runs up there, real world experience is worth its weight in gold.
I would really try to develope some direct business down to CA, to by-pass them cheap cars. Letting them sit is the only way to get the rates up, too bad they won't sit though. Somebody always takes them it seems. It is a tough call for new guys, running for fuel only.
